A New Road to Explore New Things: Looking Back on 20 Years of Talent Search. An interview with Judy Lipschutz, Ph.D.

How did you first become involved with Midwest Talent Search (MTS)?

Around 1980, I was working at a gifted center funded by the state of Illinois. In that role, I worked with 100 districts. At the time, Joyce VanTassel-Baska was the director of gifted for the state of Illinois and had decided to replicate the Johns Hopkins University talent search begun by Julian Stanley by creating the Midwest Talent Search. She was really promoting the concept, so I learned about talent searches from her. Soon afterward, Joyce left, and I became director. We started testing 6th graders using the SAT.

In the 1980s, I think we tested about 1000 students per year at our center. I would test 7th and 8th graders at local high schools separate from the regular high school testing. We could set up our own dates and times. We also ran fast-paced classes for the region. We covered algebra, Joyce taught Latin, and we had creative writing and etymology. Joyce was a powerful teacher, and she taught Latin for many years.

Can you guess what class had the largest impact on the students’ testing?

Latin was the only class that made a profound difference in students’ test scores. Unfortunately, despite all the evidence supporting the benefits of taking Latin, it really is a shame that it’s so hard to get middle schools to offer it.
The state of Illinois then moved away from 18 gifted centers statewide to nine regional service centers. I became director of one of those. I stayed with the talent search until I left the service center to become principal of Willard Elementary School in River Forest, Ill., where I stayed for 14 years. While I’ve always endorsed talent searches, I am just getting back into actively promoting them again since leaving Willard School. I am currently testing 166 7th graders at Elmhurst College.

Why have you remained committed over the years to keeping

Midwest Talent Search as an integral part of services for gifted students?
I feel that providing the Talent Search assessment is one little thing we can do for talented students that can make a big difference. Most gifted programming is overly simplistic. It’s really difficult to make a big difference for gifted students with pulling them outside of their regular classroom for 40 minutes a day or week. Providing the talent search offers gifted students a new road to explore new things.

Can you describe a specific student you've known whose educational path was affected by his/her participation in MTS?

I've had many parents tell me 10 or 15 years later what a difference participation in a talent search made in the lives of their children. Most say that it has really benefited their children to have someone recognize their academic talents. With talent search, we're telling this gifted population, “Look, you're bright.” This confirmation can help the students find an appropriate peer group and push themselves ahead. Kids react positively, often thinking: “Gee, someone recognized my talents, and it's OK to be bright.”

I can think of a couple of really great stories. One student, Michael Yu, took advantage of talent search, took accelerated courses, went to Harvard at age 15, and made a trip home at 16 to get his drivers license. Another talent search student, Colin Camerer, completed an AB degree from Johns Hopkins University at age 17, earned a PhD from the University of Chicago at age 22, and went on to have a very productive academic career.

What does a school or district need in order to successfully implement the Talent Search?

To implement the talent search, schools need people with a passion for it—people who really care about it and the gifted population of the school. Unfortunately, there are many people out there who just don't want to rock the boat. There is some money that comes with special education, but very little with gifted education. Schools have a love-hate relationship with gifted students, and some people don’t have the time or energy to go out of their way for them. We have to remind people that it's our moral responsibility to give kids a chance if we're truly educators. Otherwise we're just placeholders.

Why is it difficult for some schools to implement MTS? What are some obstacles that keep them from doing so?

You have to have a plan in place for students who are participating in MTS. It’s not enough just to offer them the test. You need to take the next step and ask: If kids take the test, then what? Are we prepared to move the kids ahead as needed? In our districts, we offered 7th grade Algebra, 8th grade Algebra 2, and they would go on from there in math. But I tell you, you really need great teachers who are ready and willing to go out on a limb. Unfortunately, educating is often a passive profession – and not necessarily because of lack of enthusiasm or energy from teachers. I really had some great people working with me at Willard School who were really eager to try some new things. A lot of teachers are willing to put in the extra work to challenge kids, but often times administrators won't permit too much experimentation. Administrators need to work on providing a road for teachers who want to challenge themselves and the kids.

Who benefits most from MTS – parents, students, or educators?

The whole culture does. Parents benefit because they feel like they are on a road with their child. Parents often wonder if they’re worrying or doing too much or too little, and MTS helps them gauge that and assures them that they are doing something productive for their child. Teachers benefit from the good interaction with the parents and students. Students benefit from being challenged instead of bored by the educational system. The culture benefits because often these students will go on to do great things. I do think people aren't truly gifted until they make a contribution to the culture.

What is the most important reason to participate in Midwest Talent Search?

It is our moral responsibility to provide all students with both opportunities and challenges. I used to say to parents we have to be sure their gifted kids grow up academically, learn the joy of killing themselves with work, and learn to make mistakes without being devastated. They need to learn to work hard and that it pays off. The educational system as it currently stands could lose a lot of gifted kids. Students need to have a vision, and Midwest Talent Search can help provide that.

What current trends do you see in gifted education, and what role do you think Talent Search will play as the educational scene changes?

I really believe that the talent search is the only light out there right now for gifted students. The financial outlook for gifted education is bleak. We don't have people leading our country who are interested in providing for our most able students. The emphasis on not leaving any child behind is in some ways contrary to gifted students’ needs. It’s a minimalist attitude. We can't have just a minimum requirement for all students and expect our gifted students to do well. A lot of districts and schools won't permit off-level testing. I know of a school where the administration wouldn’t let a child take a test one year early. Because we’re a big country with a big bureaucracy, it's so very hard to accommodate students’ individual needs.

How can schools most effectively use MTS scores?

The easiest thing for schools to do is to begin acceleration in math. Middle school students can usually arrange to take high school algebra early in the morning at the local high school. It’s often just a case of figuring out who will pay for the cost of bussing students from one school to the other. It is more difficult to accommodate students particularly gifted in verbal areas. One suggestion would be to allow a middle school student to take Latin early in the morning at the high school. If the academic talent is high in both math and verbal, it’s often easiest to have the student grade accelerated.

What are your favorite MTS-related resource materials?

I love all of them. The information on summer programs and options for students are particularly helpful. While making time to read them is difficult, parents will find them worth it.

How do you explain the talent search concept in a nutshell?

Participating in a talent search allows parents and schools the opportunity to find an academic path for their child and identify their strengths and improve areas that aren’t as strong. It helps provide academic information that regular achievement tests don’t provide. Talent searches show us that students are truly exceptional, instead of just in the 95% percentile for their grades.